5 Reasons Why The FK Series of Civic Type Rs are not Real Type Rs
Why The FK Series of Civic Type Rs are not Real Type Rs...
Back in January 2015, at the Geneva Motor Show, we all got very excited, because two of the most iconic Hondas are back - the NSX and the Civic Type R.
2015 was a very good year. The new hybrid NSX was proved to be a cut-price 918, and mind-bendingly fast in a stright line. The Civic Type R, the FK2 was a hit amongst the journalists.
Credit: https://www.motor1.com/news/132381/civic-type-r-faster-than-nsx/
Just a year later we received another piece of news - there is going to be a new FK8 Civic Type R, that is going for the Nurburgring lap record once again. The car world got very excited once again, because the last Type R was a thing of fresh air, and the new one with it's improved suspension and completely new rear-end, is going to be a hoot to drive. And safe to say, it is a hoot to drive. Quick turn-in, sharp gear changes. It was named to be one of the best really hot hatches of the modern era.
Credit: CivicX.com
I hate to bring you the bad news, but both the FK2 and the FK8 Civic Type Rs are not really Type Rs. Here are 5 Reasons why.
1. It's too fast for a Civic Type R
Credit: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/comparison/2015/honda-civic-type-r-vs-vw-golf-gti-vs-renaultsport-megane-trophy-r-2015-review/
The Civic Type Rs of old has never been about fast. If you recall that back in the nineties and the noughties, the competition of the Civic Type R was always the Golf GTi, probably the Renault Clio. And look what it's competing against now - Focus RS, Megane RS, and so on, so it's grown fatter, and gained a lot of horsepower.
Credit: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2017-honda-civic-type-r-captures-nurburgring-lap-record/
Nurburgring laptimes have also been on the list of Honda's target. Because breaking the record for front wheel drive cars would mean that they would sell like hot cakes. And I get why Honda would want to aim for the record. But for me, Civic Type Rs were never meant to be competing for laptimes, it was always meant for fun, like lift-off-oversteer sort of fun. And aiming for laptimes would mean that the rear end would need to stay utterly planted on the tarmac. And the tyres would need to be super grippy…and that just loses the unique nature of the Type R. The one that needs to be hunting for laptimes have always been the NSX Type Rs, not a supposedly faster version of a hatchback.
2. It's too hard for any Honda
DriveTribe's own James May is known to hate the Nurburgring. Remember Aston Martin Virage that he reviewed in a television show in another universe? He called that car for being too hard and way too stiff for the road, and the reason? The Nurburgring.
I get it, why Honda would test their latest hot hatch there. It's a fearsome course with loads of crests, swooping corners and even jumps. That's why cars developed need hard suspension to actually cope with these kind of stuff.
Credit: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a33288/2017-honda-civic-type-r-reclaims-fastest-fwd-record-at-nurburgring/
The problem is when you put a road car on the Ring. Most of the people who buy their Civic Type Rs would never even drive it to track, let alone literally drive it on the track.
Therefore 90% drivers would never use it as it's meant to be, which means it's overkill for the road. The suspension is way too jiggly for the road, and in my opinion, a bit unnecessary. People who buy these hot hatches, they like to take it on a twisty B-road on a Sunday, and the conditions there are not at all like the Ring.
They could actually take the Nissan GT-R approach in my opinion, soften it for the road. That'd make the experience much nicer.
3. It's way too yobbo-looking
Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjNNEjQ6UH0
I get it, all the wings and diffusers and the likes are there for a reason. That's why I never call it a ricer, because it's tested on the Ring, it has to have wings to keep the rear end planted, it has to have brake ducts to keep the brakes cool. I totally get it.
Credit: http://www.evo.co.uk/features/20019/what-is-honda-type-r-greatest-cars-and-25-year-history-of-honda-s-performance-brand#5
The problem is that the Civic Type Rs of old never look as yobbo-ish as these two does. Look at the EK9, it's got a spoiler on it's decklid, got some slightly bigger rims, a white body, and that's how you make a Type R. You don't speak out loud and say that you're a performance car, it's designed to only let the ones who know their stuff to recognise it. Not big spoilers and so on. No.
4. The FK2 understeers for miles
Credit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Honda/comments/71d2a7/my_brothers_grey_fk2_and_my_white_fk2_in_scotland/
As we all know, the Nurburgring is a fast, long track full of high to medium speed corners. And since the FK2 was developed on the Ring, it is inevitable that it's main focus is to tackle those nasty sweeping corners and stuff. And that's fine by me, if they've sorted out all the on-power understeer that you get while accelerating out of the low-speed corners. Having seen dozens of FK2s on Japanese Touges, I can conclude that this thing actually understeers for miles while going round tight hairpins and stuff. The new FK8 actually tackled these stuff very well, as it's got a newly-designed front suspension set up and stuff, so at least it's now sorted…
5. The FK8 doesn't even have a mechanical handbrake
Credit: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1663935
Electronic handbrakes are the most stupid things of all time, they save a bit of weight and a bit of space but what it sacrifices, is the ability to pull a well-executed handbrake turn. And I'm sure all of you will know, a mechanical handbrake is a major deciding factor for most of the hot hatch buyer.
And the FK8 Type R, for whatever reasons, lacks it. I really don't mind that if the normal Civic has an electronic handbrake, but if a hot hatch that's supposed to be fun and doesn't have one. I'm fairly disappointed to say the least.
Credit: https://www.motorverso.com/portfolio-items/honda-civic-type-r-fk8-gt-review/
Both the FK2 and the FK8 are brilliant hot hatches, they bring smiles on to many Honda owners. The only problem is, I'm not so sure it has the Japanese flavour that it deserves. And the most important bit of the badge has gone missing - The R.
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Comments (7)
Cool article Sunny, but I have to strongly disagree with you in regards to the jiggly ride. The FK8 rides well, even in Sport mode, and don't forget you've got the new Comfort mode. Hell, even the R+ model is bearable on some UK roads. The FK2 however, yes, that was jiggly. Put THAT in R+ mode and you'll be picking your teeth out of your footwell.
Also, the electronic parking brake is a bit shitty, but I'm afraid that's how cars are going. The 308 GTi and the Golf GTi have the same thing, it's a sign of the times.
This article makes absolutely no sense to me. Having owned 3 generations of type R I completely disagree with almost everything you have said.
Point 1. Type R was designed to compete with the Golf. The Golf has also got fatter and faster as has most every other hot hatch! It still does compete with the likes of the golf R and the most recent most powerful edition of the GTI.
Then you say about it not being about track times. What?? Track times are the complete point of the type R!!! It’s all about track and having a car that may not be the fastest in a 1/4 mile but decimates much faster cars on a circuit!!!
Point 2. It’s too hard. Again. What??? You ever driven an FD2 or an FN2 even? The FK8 is sooo much more compliant on the road and much less harsh!!
Point 3 I could have let go as I can see this as entirely subjective but then you mention the necessity of these things. Again, mostly wrong. Honda confirmed the rear wing on the FK8 is mostly all show when they released the 2020 sport line version with no huge wing. Also most of the vents that do exist are a lot smaller than they look or are fake altogether.
Point 4. Can’t comment. Never driven one. You might be right.
Point 5. Something we agree on finally! Well almost. I think they are needlessly over complicated personally when cable handbrakes have worked perfectly fine for decades but am I disappointed I can’t do a handbrake turn in morrisons car park? No, not really.
I’d advise anyone reading this thread to speak to the people who have owned several generations of these cars as the above really isn’t representative for the most part at all. Rant over!
I dont agree
Who at Drivetribe allowed this article to be posted? I'm sorry, but everything you said (apart from the handbrake) is complete noncense! You say the Type R has never been designed for track racing and fast lap times? The 'R' stands for racing. People don't buy Type Rs because they're "fun" & lose grip under cornering, they buy them because they're fast, sharp, and a bit different from boring Golfs & Audi S3s (which everyone has) that is where the real fun is. the FK2 was a much needed change from the old, all be it reliable, Honda recipe to keep up with the competition going turbocharged. After all, that's what hot hatches are all about.. the next step in hatcback evolution, & the FK series delivered in spades.
You've clearly never driven any of these type r's. Nothing you've written makes any sense and it's poorly written to boot.