Michelin vs Firestone: Dual-purpose street/track tires tested
Firestone's Indy 500 takes on the old guard, Michelin Pilot Super Sport's. How do they compare in street & track driving, & how close are lap times?
Michelin tires need no introduction, and even more so Pilot Super Sports. The list of cars that came with those tires as standard from the factory include the Ferrari 458 Italia, many Corvettes (the ones that don't come with the more aggressive Pilot Sport Cup 2's anyway), Mustang Shelby GT350, BMW M3's/M4's, and others. Those tires have basically dominated their class until their replacements - the Pilot Sport 4 - came on the market. Although they are by no means a track tire, they provide a phenomenal balance between excellent street manners and enough grip on track to avoid embarrassing yourself. I've been a huge fan of them on my Boss 302 and exclusively bought them for it over the last four years.
So how did I end up with a different tire? Well, when the time came to replace my tires last summer, I went to search for my usual but an alternate showed up, one that I had to consider: Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's. They were as close as makes no difference half the price of the Michelins (albeit in one size down - 275/35/18 vs 285/35/18). The decision came down to this question: are they half the tire?
I have been wanting to get a dedicated set of wheels and track tires but last summer wasn't the time, so I was looking for something to just get me through one more summer. Tempted by the price, and excellent reviews online (on the street) I pulled the trigger. They were at my doorstep less than a week later. First impressions were poor. Looking at them side by side next to the PSS's on the car, tread spacing looked massive on the Firestones in comparison and, being new, tread depth looked much larger (they actually have the same published tread depth). That led me to think tread squirm on track would be a big problem.
On the plus side, tire sidewall felt noticeably stiffer uninflated compared to uninflated PSS's, which gave me hope that they might wear more evenly compared to the PSS's (PSS's have relatively soft sidewalls for noise and comfort requirements, but it makes them very prone to rolling over the tire shoulders and wearing unevenly when pushed hard on track).
On the Street
Fortunately, grip on the street was excellent, well over what you can safely explore on the street. They were also flawless in the wet for a good summer tire and were more difficult to spin from a start compared to the Michelin's. I didn't notice any increase in noise (although Boss 302's tend to be a little loud and mine is even more so with a few harder suspension bushings). Better yet, the Firestones seem to have more straight line grip - amazingly, being narrower and supposedly a less sticky tire - and were more resistant to wheel hop with a slight spinning start.
With that said, I do think the Michelin's are a more aggressive compound, making them more sensitive to weather. I was driving in about 70 deg F/21 deg C weather and slight overcast so not exactly warm asphalt and the Firestones might have had a temperature advantage and were working better. But whatever the reason, they did really well. The less aggressive tread compound of the Firestones was confirmed without doubt on track...
What are they like on track?
After three track days, I had a very clear picture of what the Firestone tires are; phenomenal, unmatched value. Now, if value is something that stands out above all else, it typically means the compromise between qualities you want and those you don't is less than ideal, but the value is attractive. This is no different. I'll start with the bad, which really boil down to two: ultimate grip and grip longevity.
Grip is noticeably lower than the PSS's, which was expected. Not by a huge amount, but you can't miss the difference. I think this is more a testament to Michelin's technology rather than a detriment to the Indy 500's. They are second only to PSS's as far as tires I have tried. I haven't tried a whole lot of summer street tires (non R comp) on the same car, but my previous experience on track so far includes:
Pirelli P ZERO
Pirelli P ZERO Tire - Pirelli ©
Continental ExtremeContact DW
Continental ExtremeContact DW Tire - Continental Tires ©
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tire - Michelin ©
BFGoodrich g-Force Sport Comp 2
BFGoodrich g-Force Sport Comp 2 tire - BFGoodrich ©
I, unfortunately, don't have objective results (lap times) for all except the PSS and the Indy 500's, so take that for what it's worth. But subjectively, the Firestones are second only to the PSS. And I would bet serious money they are objectively better than the P Zeros (seriously, someone please take that bet so I can get rich). The P Zeros are easily at the bottom; stone dead last. Don't buy them. They came from the factory on my Boss 302 and every Mustang owner I know agrees. They aren't the worst tire out there but many LESS expensive options are better in just about every way.
Continental EC DW are really tough to place. They are certainly lower than the PSS, but I'm not so sure about the Indy 500's. The trouble with the Continentals is that they are a fairly soft tire (structurally). They don't feel sharp and response is relatively slow, so they feel slow, but they generate more grip than their subjective impressions suggest. It's tough to say for sure, but I would place them lower than the Indy 500's.
Sport Comp 2 are even closer, but, fortunately, Tire Rack actually did a Tire Test when the Indy 500's came out to compare. The Indy 500 beat the Sport Comp 2 in almost every test (albeit by narrow margins sometimes); wet and dry slalom, wet and dry lap time, and wet and dry grip. Only area the Sport Comp 2 were better was braking.
Firestone vs Michelin Lap Times
That brings it back to the Indy 500's and the PSS's. Are you willing to live with lower ultimate grip? Be prepared to live with shorter track sessions too, unless you dial down your pace to 7-8/10th for more of the session. The ultimate grip, which is lower than the PSS to start with, doesn't last for long. Maybe 3 hot laps. After that, they seem to settle in a spot for a good while and maintain their grip there, but they won't recover. I tried taking a cool down lap or two, but they still didn't recover. You'll have to come off the track and wait for them to cool a little or slow down the pace. Objective numbers back this up with one example session:
Lapping Session #1
Lap 1: out lap
Lap 2: 1:21.83
Lap 3: 1:21.45
Lap 4: 1:22.89 - greasy
Lap 5: cool down lap and went in the pits for 5 minutes to check pressure . Pressures were high (41-42 psi). I dropped to 38 psi and went back out.
> Session #1 (after 5 min cool down)
Lap 6: out lap
Lap 7: 1:21.50
Lap 8: 1:21.46
Lap 9: 1:22.39 - greasy
Lap 10: 1:23.87 (traffic)
Lap 11: 1:22.33 - greasy
Lap 12: in-lap
So I got two hot laps, then they got greasy. I cooled down for 5 minutes, went back out, got another two good laps and then they got greasy. I could typically get 5 or 6 hot laps from the PSS's before they got that greasy. Here's another example session:
Lapping Session #2
Lap 1: out lap
Lap 2: 1:21.78
Lap 3: 1:24.40 (traffic)
Lap 4: 1:24.56 (traffic)
Lap 5: 1:22.54 - greasy
Lap 6: 1:22.25 - greasy
Lap 7: 1:23.15 - really greasy
Lap 8: in-lap
I have two other sessions with lap times, one with a best of 1:21.60 and another with a 1:21.50. What do all sessions have in common? A 1:21.xx time is always in lap 2 or 3 (straight from the paddock or from pit lane after a cool down period) and not a single session with sub 1:22 lap time after Lap 3. Now, how does that compare to the PSS?
The Michelin Advantage
Well, my best on the PSS tires was 1:20.40, so over 1 second quicker (-1.05 s quicker to be exact). That's your ultimate grip advantage. With PSS's, I have multiple sessions with a 1:20.xx lap time in laps 4 and/or 5. You won't get the best out of the Indy 500's after lap 3. And they'll let you know they've let go, because they squeal like a pig. When I came off the track after one of the sessions, someone asked me: "Where you the one squealing tires everywhere?" The PSS give good warnings and certainly let you know when they start to let go, but not like this. These tires are LOUD at the limit.
By this point, you're probably thinking I'm trying to paint a grim picture here but, actually, I'm not. Not at all. Here is the thing. Does this car put food on the table by racing? No. Does this car even compete in amateur racing? No. Does this car need to get pushed to 10/10th every single lap? No. Ask yourself those questions. If you answered no to every one, you don't really need the extra little bit of grip and that one second gap.
The only other question is: are you ok just having fun at 7 or 8/10th and getting passed a few extra times every session, or do you need to pass as many people as you can? It may seem like a question of ego, but everyone into high performance driving is very competitive. If you are ok pointing by a few extra cars to pass every lapping session, I don't think there is a reason to get the Michelin's over these Firestones just because of the ultimate grip and how long it lasts. There is another benefit too.
Track wear comparison: New (bottom) vs after 2 track days and approx. 2k street miles - Rams Eye The Track Guy ©
The Firestone Advantage
Anyone who's had PSS tires on a heavy car (i.e. 3,400+ lb/1,550 kg+; the Boss 302 is approximately 3,600 lb.) knows the struggle: shoulder wear. PSS tires roll over too much when pushed on heavy cars. They eat the shoulders long before centre tread is worn. I've had chords show (the metal structure/carcass of the tire under the rubber treads) with a lot of usable tread on the inside and centre tread sections of the tire. You need consistent rotation and decent camber to get decent life out of them. That has been my experience and several other Boss 302's and M3's I've seen. So far, those Indy 500's seem to be wearing more evenly (and slower), despite being narrower (275 vs 285)*.
This tire takes the abuse better, it lasts longer (on the track, I assume on the street as well but too early to tell), it is better in the wet, I can't tell any difference in ride quality or noise in a car like the Boss 302, and isn't far behind on track. All for literally about half the cost. Whenever someone asked me at the track what I thought of them, I kept saying the same thing: it's probably about 80% the tire for 50% the cost, and it lasts longer. How can you argue with that?
The Verdict
For now, all I can say is this: if you plan to go to the track and just have fun at 7-8/10th or under, save your money. I don't see a reason to buy any tire that's more expensive than those Firestones. In fact, you may actually have grip last longer than me. Our track - Atlantic Motorsport Park - is relatively short and technical, with 11 turns in 1.6 miles so it is very hard on tires and brakes.
For reference, Virginia International Raceway (VIR) is 17 turns in 3.3 miles; more than double the length with only about 50% more turns. VIR is where the Three Amigos went on Top Gear for the East Coast Road Trip (S16) and took a 458 Italia, an SLS AMG, and a 911 GT3 RS. Big Willow (in Willow Springs in the US) is 7 turns in 2.5 miles. The famous Laguna Seca in California is 11 turns in 2.2 miles. You get the picture.
If you don't get paid to lay down qualifying lap times, this tire is darn near hard to beat. If you do, well, you're running R-comps or slicks anyway, so there shouldn't even be a discussion about street tires.
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*If you are curious why the Firestones are wearing better despite being narrower, here's what I think:
1. PSS's have fairly square tread, so I think they "tip" over the edge of tread more easily at high load and roll over the shoulders. The Indy 500's tread is quite curved where it meets the shoulder, so it rolls onto the outer tread instead of tipping over and dragging the shoulders/sidewall against the road at high load.
2. Slightly shorter tire sidewall height. I was running 285/35/18 PSS and now I'm on 275/35/18 so, with the same aspect ratio and narrower section, tire wall is shorter and should be stiffer - all else being equal.
3. The narrower size (i.e. 275 vs 285) is probably better supported by the wheels since I didn't change the wheels from the TSW Nurburgring 18 x 9.5", which is too narrow for a 285 section tire on track.
4. Finally - and contrary to a lot of online reviews of Indy 500 tires - I think the sidewall structure is stiffer than the Michelin's. I don't know if I'm out to lunch about this, but when I grabbed an uninflated Indy 500 tire, the sidewall felt much stiffer than uninflated PSS tires. I've grabbed dozens of PSS tires and they feel softer. I've seen a lot of people say the PSS have sharper steering response and blame that on softer sidewalls on the Indy 500's. I agree with the sharper response from the PSS, but I think that's actually because of higher grip as well as the first point - the square tread. Since the Indy 500 have more curved tread at the shoulder instead of square, that should dull steering response vs the PSS's, which are more flat where it meets the road
But whatever the reason, they wear better than the Michelin's and they feel a little more stable under heavy cornering without the amount of roll over the tire shoulder that the PSS's do so that is a big benefit. And when you consider that the difference in performance is about 1 second and a couple fewer hot laps, you have to ask yourself: is this half the tire? The answer is a resounding no. It is far from it.
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Comments (12)
I figured I’d be between these in a couple years, great comparisons and article!
Thanks! Glad it helps. Feel free to message me if you have any questions before ordering.
Good review and very fair assessment IMO. I tried both tires and your review is pretty much spot on. Thanks!